SimSER SRX not working on BBQL

[martyn_hill]

Hi everyone

I've been playing around with the SERNET package between my BBQL and QPC on a laptop, but without success, so far.

Wondering if anyone else has had any success running SERNET (v2.25) between BBQL and QPC?

For the split Rx/TX on the BBQL, I've been using the SR03 version of the SimSER extensions, and tracked down that the SRX device doesn't seem to work correctly - even for normal serial reception - and hence blocking SERNET...

The STX half of the driver does appear to work OK for transmission.

On the BBQL I'm running Min v1.98, TK2, Lightning plus a suite of other toolkits and have the SD-Card interface fitted, along with HERMES.

Doesn't seem to matter which BAUD I'm using and other serial connections work perfectly well (up to 19k2 BAUD) as long as SimSER is not loaded.

Thoughts?

[Derek_Stewart]

Hi,

I used to use SimSer on a BBQL and QPC2, many years ago.

I only got reliable Sernet connection when the Baud Rate was 9600, anything above this may connect, but hand shaking is unreliable.

I know that the BBQL with Hermes can reach 19200 Baud, but I never got Sernet connections other than 9600 Baud.

SimSer only works with SER1 or SER2, the extension access the IPC directly. Superhermes SER3 will not work with Sernet, because the lack of split baud rates and only one clock on the board. The source to SER3 is unavailable.

I used QPC2 to Q60 Sernet connections at 115200.

I did make a special cable to connect: Q60, QPC2, QXL But the QXL SER ports can 38400 Baud. So sernet was running at 38400 baud bewteen 3 node, with the QXl as a server and the BBQL connected by the QL Network port.

So indirectly the BBQL was connected to the Q60 via QXL server, a little slow, but seems to work.

[martyn_hill]

Thanks Derek - helpful to know that the SimSer + SERNET has been gotten to work on the BBQL.

More investigation needed

[Derek_Stewart]

Hi,

I will set the BBQL to QPC2 again, I report back in due course.

I am just finishing a tiling job on my downstairs bathroom.

I have not tried QPC, as QPC2 is better.

[martyn_hill]

Thanks Derek - be very interested to hear how it works in your setup!

I'll do some more testing at my end (using QPC2 as well) and report back.

My ultimate aim after actually getting SERNET (with SimSER) to work on the BBQL is to learn more about the protocol it implements (vs. the TK2 FSERVE, for example) and see what I can do to re-engineer it.

Using the serial ports in this way is limiting to an extent (messy cabling and restricted bit-rate) and I'm interested in networking on the QL in general...

[martyn_hill]

So...

More testing just using the SImSER extensions on the BBQL is leaving me puzzled...

Regardless of handshaking mode, baud or otherwise, opening an SRX channel does not accept any input.

Except... If I close the SRX channel (with handshaking) and re-open it, the data that was due to be sent in the previous attempt arrives happily - then stalls again. Re-sending from the remote end shows nothing until I re-open the SRX channel yet again, and it then comes through.

I'm just sending my text Boot file from QPC2 (using its default SER driver) to the BBQL for testing using a known-good null-modem cable that has been used extensively/successfully between these two devices, including handshaking - the only difference in setup is the simSER SRX device.

Just to re-cap, receiving in all the same configurations using the QDOS/Minerva std SER device works entirely as expected with the same parameters (srx1h vs. ser1h) and BAUDs.

I don't know how to interpret this behaviour at all...

Derek (or anyone else who has successfully used SimSer on a BBQL with Minerva and Hermes) - could you kindly verify your copy of SimSER against mine?

I downloaded mine from Dilwyn's site (a few times, just in case) - the binary file "simSER.BYT" is 3,386 bytes and reports itself as version 'SR03'...

Perplexed, of Ealing...

[tofro]

Martyn,

the fact that you get some bytes across when opening and closing the channel on the receiving end hints - to a misconfigured cable. Opening and closing the channel will toggle DTR - If this is connected to CTS on the PC end instead to DSR where it belongs, you'd see exactly the effect you are observing (closing and re-opening the receiving end will toggle DTR, this would be interpreted by the PC as CTS and it would actually send some bytes)
The "standard QL serial ports" never got the hardware handshake really right and basically toggle everything on every byte - Maybe this is why it works there.

The correct handshake wires to pair are RTS/CTS and DSR/DTR

Tobias

[martyn_hill]

Hi Tobias

Thanks for that - it makes sense.

Would this explanation account for the working comms between QPC2 and BBQL when using just the standard QL SER driver and the very same cable?

I've been reliably sending/receiving at 19.2k (with handshaking) in this config previously.

Also, if the DTR toggling triggers successful comms at open/close, would we expect the full file (about 2kB in size) to be successfully transferred, before once again stalling?

Curious...

[Derek_Stewart]

Hi,

The problems are usually down to the QL serial port cable.

only 5 wires are needed: TX,RX,RTS,CTS,GND

With Tx,RX crossed and CTS, RTS crossed

(You can connect more than 2 machines, but a custom lead is required, where the control lines are crosed and linked to the coresponding nodes, I had this working with 3 Machine: Q60, QPC2, Trump Card QL (8049) at Sernet rate of 9600 Baud)

For more connection infomation see: http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/gen/serial/serial.html

I also did a small article: http://www.dilwyn.me.uk/gen/serial/q40sernet.html

For QPC2, Q60, QXL use a standard Null Modem cable, but not from Maplins ( they are now selling gold plates cables at £19.95), I got a Null modem cable from Ebay for £2.99, with 15 pin and 9 pin connectors on. The QL serial port needs a custom lead made up.

I used SerNET v2.22 and SimSER from Dilwyn's web site.

The Sernet network only works at the lowest Baud rate, I only got a Trump Card QL reliably connecting to QPC2 and Q60 at 9600 Baud, though I only used a 8049. I did not have Hermes, Superhermes is incompatiable with Sernet.

The maximum Baud Rates for the following machines are:

Machine Baud Rate
QPC2: 115200 Baud
Q40/60 : 115200 Baud
QXL: 38400 Baud
Atari QL: 19200 Baud
SuperGold Card Aurora: 19200 Baud
Trump Card QL (8049): 9600 Baud

I have not had time to set up a Sernet system, in the final stages of Grouting the downstairs Bathroom.

[martyn_hill]

Hi again Derek

Thanks for that.

To be honest, I'm still convinced that the SimSER driver extension is not playing with Hermes correctly, rather than the cable (which works fine with the default QL SER driver).

Good luck with the grouting!

I'm gonna experiment a bit more...