The BEST QL Editor

[Derek_Stewart]

Hi,

If the Pointer System is so bad, then what should I be using?

[ql_freak]

The software from many called Pointer Interface (this is just the part which allows for a mouse pointer and none destructable windows) is since Qpac2 the Extended Environment and includes the Pointer Interface, Wman (Window Manager) which allows sub windows etc., the Thing system AND the Hotkey System (Great). This all plays together and it is GREAT!

Of course it is different from all currently used GUIs. But that's okay. The Exteded Environment has been implemented when GUIs where invented. Tony Tebby has had another approach, which is IMHO better, than the GUIs you are using (must use) nowadays. E.g. the Hit (left mouse button) and Do (right mouse button). With Do normally a menu pops up, as if you e.g. click the right mouse button in the Windows File Explorer, i.e. a (now called) context menu. I have seen this first on the QL, Windows have had this feature (for some programs) 1 or 2 years later. But it's even better: If you do a Hit in a menu of a Qpac2 program (menu), the menu stays open and the other program starts. If you do a Do, the current Qpac2 menu, the menu disappears, and the menu you have clicked opens.

Then there's the excellent HOT_KEY system (ERT HOT_KEY(...)) with it's hotkey stuffer!!! Have you ever tried to get the full pathname of a file listed in the File Explorer of Windows(!). In the Files menu of QPac2 you just have to click on the file (directory) and you can insert the full pathname with <ALT>–<SPACE> (and the one before with <SHIFT>–<ALT>–<SPACE>!) in any prompt of a program, which requires a file name. That's the reason, why I normally do not use (need) Jochen Merz's file chooser extension (I can do it IMHO more easy with the Files menu).

[bwinkel67]

The Exteded Environment has been implemented when GUIs where invented.

I didn't realize this was over 40 years old. I thought it was created in the 90s, not early 80s. Did Tony create it at the same time as TK2?

[Derek_Stewart]

Hi,

I am sorry to imply that I did not know what the Pointer System is, which I meant: PTR_GEN, WMAN, HOT_REXT, and QPAC2, which make it The Extended Environment.

I used all this since Qjump introduced QRAM, which I bought and he update QPAC2, which included the Pointer System. This is all free now.

If I want to use a GUI system on the QL, there is only one option - The Pointer System and QPAC2, QD, QMENU, QBASIC which makes the QL a nice GUI based system in less than 512K or ram, no other system can do this.

The best non GUI editor in my opinion is QED, and maybe TheEDitorSE a close second. GUI Editors, QD, I can not think of any other

But then all the software is free, so have it all and decide which is our best option.

Again my question is, if the Pointer System written by Tony Tebby, is so bad, as he seemed to write good software. What should I be using?

[tofro]

The Exteded Environment has been implemented when GUIs where invented.

I didn't realize this was over 40 years old. I thought it was created in the 90s, not early 80s. Did Tony create it at the same time as TK2?

Digging a bit in memory and old paperwork:
Its first incarnation came with QRAM, and that should have been 1987 or 1988 - So, not quite 40 years old. But to establish itself from a GUI toolkit that drove QJump programs to the publicly accepted WIMP for the QL took another, like 3-5 years. I can't just now find the first release date of the QPTR toolkit that provided the API to third-party developers.

TK2 is a different story - that entered the market as early as 1985, one year after the launch.

[pjw]

The Exteded Environment has been implemented when GUIs where invented.

I didn't realize this was over 40 years old. I thought it was created in the 90s, not early 80s. Did Tony create it at the same time as TK2?

Digging a bit in memory and old paperwork:
Its first incarnation came with QRAM, and that should have been 1987 or 1988 - So, not quite 40 years old. But to establish itself from a GUI toolkit that drove QJump programs to the publicly accepted WIMP for the QL took another, like 3-5 years. I can't just now find the first release date of the QPTR toolkit that provided the API to third-party developers.
<>

I dont know when QPTR was first released to the public, but from the original source code (V0.00) it looks like QJump's JR Oakley wrote most of it back in 1987.

[RalfR]

I dont know when QPTR was first released to the public, but from the original source code (V0.00) it looks like QJump's JR Oakley wrote most of it back in 1987.

The first ad for QPTR was published in QL-World in May 1987.

And yes, QPTR was written by Jonathan Oakley; in retrospect, some things could certainly have been done differently and more simply. Apart from Wolfgang Lenerz, I don't know anyone who uses QPTR. I used it once and found it extremely confusing and complicated. Never again. QPTR was certainly well-intentioned, but from a commercial perspective, I think it was a disaster. Jonathan Oakley probably spent weeks if not months on it.

As I gathered from my letters from TT, the Pointer Interface came first; the Window Manager came much later and, theoretically, isn't necessary for simpler things. TT hasn't commented on whether this was already started under Sinclair (although I've asked several times).

Would TT do the Pointer Environment the same way again today? After all, some things were changed before the initial release. For example, in the beginning, the secondaries could be located outside the primary. That would be very nice these days and is common practice with other GUIs.

The new abbreviations (e.g. SMS.INFO vs. MT.INF) are already present in the source files of the Pointer Environment and QPTR. This suggests that the SMS kernel was either finished very early (1985) or that someone took the trouble to replace the abbreviations everywhere, which would have been a huge task if it wasn't done automatically.

BTW: The pointer interface (ptr_gen) was changed and expanded every few weeks during the QRAM era. That's why I never understood why Sandy put it into the EPROM of his SuperQBoard/Mouse. Even the first QRAM version shipped with the SQB had a more up-to-date ptr_gen. So you had to load it anyway. At least that's how it was with my SQB.

[dilwyn]

My actual question: Is there a list of S*BASIC tokens anywhere?

There is indeed. I have one but as I literally moved house a couple of days ago, I know not where it is!

Somewhere, I have a program written in Super basic to decide a QSaved file back into plain text. That file, which is well commented, should give you all the token details you need.

Sorry Im not much help here, I do know Dilwyn updated it to cope with the new Binary and Hexadecimal floating point values, perhaps he can help?

Cheers,
Norm.

Can you remember the filename of it? I'll have a look.

Page 198 of the Jan Jones SuperBASIC book, after floating point format tokens, I have the following handwritten:

* HEX values: six bytes $E masked into top four bits
* BIN values: six bytes $D masked into top four bits
* stored as floating point, but withtop 4 bits changed to indicate HEX or BINary values.