Q68 on QL Network

[martyn_hill]

Hi Derek!

In principle, all the NET drivers released across the various QL platforms/expansion cards follow the exact same standard, so the very slight difference in the GoldCard NET driver caught me out when testing the QLUB firmware. Usually, it shouldn't be an issue and even in Dilwyn's case, probably not the cause of the issue.

All the latest QLUB, ND-Q68 and ND-Nxt drivers that I have developed have since been tested (and adjusted accordingly) against almost the entire range of possible QL configurations - the only one I haven't yet tried is with Aurura plus Super/Gold Card - soon to be addressed

Let's see where the root cause of Dilwyn's problem lies...

[dilwyn]

When I eventually found the right screwdriver (long story, my son had put them back somewhere other than where I normally keep them), I opened the case and the network connector lead had come off the Q68 circuit board. I'd tried Martin's suggestion of shaking it to try to hear if something was loose, without hearing anything, so maybe it was half off and only after removing the case top did it come completely off.

Good job Derek mentioned the alignment of the black paint on the network leads connector as it isn't immediately obvious which end of the expansion connector is which, in case I put it back on the wrong end - the twist of the cable implied it went at the end nearest the back of the case, so thanks for that suggestion, Derek.

All working fine now.

Martyn - glad to say that v3.05 of ndq68_dvr_v305 works with the combination of equipment listed below, will try the other software version later. I had FSERVE going on all three machines, all accessed each others' drives OK. I'll see what other equipment I can put on the network tonight, maybe try the second QL without its QIMSI-Gold and the backup BBQL if I can find it in the attic. None of my PCs have a serial port to try adding Sernet to the mix, though if I can find a suitable RS232 cable I might try the spare BBQL via Sernet to the Q68 just for (slow) fun. Then another time try Martin's IPnet driver to introduce the Q68 to the PCs

(I can hear you all gnashing your teeth in worry...)

So then I'll probably have the second or third largest QL network outside of the Martyn Hill household and possibly Derek's setup.

NET 1 : JS QL/Gold Card/QIMSI (SD storage only)

NET 2 : Q68

NET 3 : Aurora JM/Super Gold Card/Qubide/ROMdisq (Q-Branch Minis-QL system)
(tried Aurora with SMSQ/E too, also works OK)

Interesting that it's all seemingly quite reliable with a mix of QDOS and SMSQ/E in the chain.

Even silly things like DIR n1_n2_win1_ seem to work, albeit slowly.

Long time since I played with the QL network like this! Will see if I can find the rudimentary network messaging software I wrote to use to use at Quanta workshops in the 1980s, if the floppy disk still works.

[martyn_hill]

Great news, Dilwyn!

Keep us posted - perhaps we can then take a poll to see who's is the largest (QL Network, that is!)

[Derek_Stewart]

Hi Dilwyn

Great you have fixed the problem yourself.

The Q68 Network circuitry, is basically 2 wires. At the Q68 expansion port the QL Network signal splits to QL NET and +5v through a diode. The line is GND.

The Network connection at the Expansion port is a push on connector with no lock or guide, maybe the plug had vibrated loose and lost connection.

I put the Black paint on the plug, for my benefit as I some forget the way things go.

Maybe I should alter the Expansion port to the 3 pins for QL NET have a lock guide.

Which should not have any affect on the expansion port, as I am not sure what to connect to the Q68 Expansion port, Arduino or Pico Pi maybe...

[tofro]

Martyn - glad to say that v3.05 of ndq68_dvr_v305 works with the combination of equipment listed below, will try the other software version later. I had FSERVE going on all three machines, all accessed each others' drives OK. I'll see what other equipment I can put on the network tonight, maybe try the second QL without its QIMSI-Gold and the backup BBQL if I can find it in the attic. None of my PCs have a serial port to try adding Sernet to the mix, though if I can find a suitable RS232 cable I might try the spare BBQL via Sernet to the Q68 just for (slow) fun. Then another time try Martin's IPnet driver to introduce the Q68 to the PCs

(I can hear you all gnashing your teeth in worry...)

So then I'll probably have the second or third largest QL network outside of the Martyn Hill household and possibly Derek's setup.

NET 1 : JS QL/Gold Card/QIMSI (SD storage only)

NET 2 : Q68

NET 3 : Aurora JM/Super Gold Card/Qubide/ROMdisq (Q-Branch Minis-QL system)
(tried Aurora with SMSQ/E too, also works OK)

Glad you got it working again - But you might have to stock up for the second largest QL network

NET 1 Q68 my (newest) QL file server, also the bridge between IPNet and QLNet
NET 2 QPC connected via Martin's IPNetDriver on a Linux laptop
NET 3 QL with SGC, also has Sernet ready, but that is no longer used
NET4 PC with QXL card that used to be my file server before the Q68, also sernet-ready
NET 5 My Mac mini Desktop PC connected via IPNet
and, finally, Net6, My MacBook, also via IPNet

There's also a vintage Dolch "lunchbox" that has a second QXL card, but that's currently ripped apart for a mainboard and display upgrade

(Not all of them are always in use, though, so I won't challenge Martyn's network size )

[Derek_Stewart]

NET 5 My Mac mini Desktop PC connected via IPNet
and, finally, Net6, My MacBook, also via IPNet

There's also a vintage Dolch "lunchbox" that has a second QXL card, but that's currently ripped apart for a mainboard and display upgrade

(Not all of them are always in use, though, so I won't challenge Martyn's network size )

what sort of Mac Mini, maybe QLUB on the USB would work

[FrancoisLanciault]

Hi Dilwyn,

I have exactly the same setup as you i.e. Q68, SGC + Aurora, QL + GC and they were all happily talking over the network (in fact I also had at one point a BBQL in addition)

My Q68 is unplugged with no network hardware at the moment but I will check as soon as I have a few minutes what version of the network software I am using and will let you know.

François

[Derek_Stewart]

Does anyone have QIMSI Gold using the QL NET from the QIMSI Gold NETwork connections.

I have not got a QIMSI Gold.

[martyn_hill]

Hi Derek

I have not yet gotten around to explore running my gorgeous QIMSI Gold with the NW - another item on my To-do list!

If @Peter is reading this, I do have a question regarding how QIMSI Gold compares to the Q68/QZero in terms of memory access contention when running tight software loops - in particular, whether there is the same uncontended memory area (SRAM) available on the QIMSI-G, or, if indeed there is no requirement to use the same mechanism I employed in ND-Q68 of relocating the physical NW routine/Supervisor Stack into SRAM to ensure consistent timing?

This will have a bearing on how swiftly I can adapt ND-Q68 to the QIMSI-G...

Once the SW side is addressed, then as I understand it, it would simply be a matter of establishing a physical connection between the NET & Gnd pads exposed on the QIMSI-G ROM slot connector to either the internal QL Network or else (less elegantly) to flying leads outside the casing to switched Jack socket(s) via a 47ohm resistor+ termination resistors (mimicking the cct inside the QL.)

[dilwyn]

I wasn't too sure from reading the QIMSI Gold manual if the 47ohm resistor and clamp diode are already on the board (so needing only the 330 ohm resistor on the jack socket contact?).

What held me back from adding the network was the worry over a third cable tugging on the fairly fragile connection on the ROM slot (accidentally moving the video cable is sometimes enough to upset the QIMSI). I think I'd also worry about the cable breaking free or damaging the pads on the QIMSI if moved

I suppose a small breakout box with two network jack sockets, resistors and a removable lead to the QIMSI, attached somehow to the back of the QL where there are no connectors to one side of the ROM port, might be practical for strain relief. If running a (removable) cable to the QL network sockets proves as practical as Martyn suggested, that's probably as good a solution as any.

Watching with interest!