SBASIC Programming

[swensont]

Dilwyn,

I was about to take up your challenge on working on a "new" QL manual for "newbies". Not wanting to recreate the wheel, I looked to see what information was already available. Looking at your "General Information" page, I see links to pages that talk about the original QL and hardware, the Pointer Environment and TKII, a list of emulators, a document page, and even a page for "those new to or returning to using the QL". This one page seems to have links to a large pool of information on the QL.

Are the people sending you queries not even looking at this page or the pages that it links to? If they are not, then I'm not sure a new document would solve the problem.

Your "General Information" page seems to be exactly what these folks need.

I've had customers in the past ask for information on how to do X, and I like to reply with "I'll you refer to Page YY of the User Guide, it has a complete list what you need to do." Sometimes we need to get people to drink once we show them where the water is.

Tim

[dilwyn]

I'm on local village and traffic groups on bookface and it's the same old story there. Why bother taking 20 seconds to search for a quick answer for yourself when you can ask the same question as has already been asked 20 times today in ten seconds? I'm sure most people don't know how to use Facebook search on a page or group, or are just plain lazy. In fact I know a lot people locally don't even know the page/group searches exist - I get asked something by people I know (not talking QL here), I don't remember the answer, I tell them it was mentioned a couple of hours ago, just search the Facebook group and they ask "how do you do that?" which always stuns me even though I've heard it so many times. And when you moan about them repeat posting, you just get abuse in return as though you're some kind of weirdo if you want people to actually search for themselves. So I'm pessimistic about getting people to read and think for themselves anyway. Most people seem to want to run before they've learned to walk. I've been asked many times to become an IT tutor volunteer locally because people think I'm some kind of expert (if only they knew!), but in reality my only real skill is a willingness to try to find and work out things for myself. It must take a very special kind of person to be an IT support person! I often despair for people like Peter, Derek and Maskenlos - no matter how often we've said where to get Q68s and QIMSIs from, people keep asking as though it's never been mentioned and is some kind of state secret.

A good example of asking the same things over and over without looking first is on The Spectrum Facebook group. The endless same old repeated posts about firmware upgrades and game controllers get asked, when all people need to do is look at the maker's website where the answer is already there. No, why look when you can ask the same old thing again and again.

One reason people ask instead of searching here on the Forum is that the search (even the advanced search) is so hopeless at returning results relevant to what you search for. Even using search engines, I wish they had an "exact match" option so that the 99% of irrelevant results were eliminated, even if it often resulted in zero search results. Simple example: Try forcing Gongle to search for sinclair ql with a search such as "sinclair"+"ql" and 99% of what is returned has more to do with SQL or the Brother QL label printers than what you searched for. Despite putting words in quotes and using operators to try to specify exactly what you're looking for. Perhaps this sort of thing puts people off searching for themselves. I hate "fuzzy searches". And it's often worse with AI systems because they try to be too clever sometimes.

We are blessed here that people like tofro (just the first name that came to mind) are so prepared to answer questions and take time to help out.

So I'm not optimistic that a "QL Manual 2" would resolve all this, it's greatest value would be for those who do actually like to sit down with a manual and work their way through it, or those who are prepared to look through an index (for paper copies) or search (PDF/eBook/website) as a first step. At least these days programs like Word make it quite easy to add contents list and indexes automatically or semi-automatically, make PDFs, generate crude HTML pages etc. It's how I update my SBASIC manual (and @Sparrowhawk, once I took up your challenge about updating it, I promptly fell ill for most of the month, so I failed spectacularly on that challenge but it will happen now I'm more or less recovered).

[XorA]

These days you would be better off getting your moobs out. Doing a 20s interpretive dance on the subject while having the "oh no" song playing!

[dilwyn]

These days you would be better off getting your moobs out. Doing a 20s interpretive dance on the subject while having the "oh no" song playing!

[pjw]

At first I found myself agreeing with Dilwyn on the need for a new manual.
And then I found myself agreeing with Tim that all that needs to be written
is already there. Finally, I find myself agreeing with the further
discussion that there is no point in any of this as those who need it most
are not inclined to read it!

Perhaps what might be useful is an index of literature, ie a list of
manuals, documents, articles, (edited) QL Forum topics even. Ideally,
perhaps, such an index and the material it points to could be converted to
an HTML web.

Any questions could be referred to it, and perhaps over time, a suitable FAQ
could be built with links to the detail found in the rest of the web.

I made a start on a project I called SMSQ/E Web that included a documents
section. Those consisted of all the SMSQ/E-related Tebby documents I could
find from various sources, converted to nicely formatted HTML. (Viz the
sample below). Its the sort of work I did when not feeling up to doing
anything else. I have done about a third of the ones Ive got, but its been
a while now since I processed any more.

SMSQ/E Web - Docs

One way to set about it, perhaps, would be to start by creating a list of
candidate documents to convert - and, of course, a standard template to
work to. The list would have to be specific so as to get the most up-to-date
versions and to weed out duplicates under a different name, etc.

The only central point would be the web host - a volunteer and a deputy, or
a small group - who would need to manage the web site and add the documents
to the web as they, from time to time, were submitted by assorted enthusiasts(!)

Regarding the template: I have tried a whole lot of automated DOC, PDF, TXT
-> HTML converters - every word processor usually has one. They are
terrible! Ive done all mine by hand, which some people may find beyond
annoying to do. A compromise might be to convert documents to text and then
use one of the text->html converters out there (Dilwyn has a usable one,
IIRC) to do the donkey work and to finish the rest by hand.

Ok. Nuff from me. Over to you.

[ql_freak]

Anyone loading EasyPointer's toolkit ptrmen_cde has access to the command
WMOV. Type that in any SBASIC window to move the window anywhere on screen.
WMOV can be used in BASIC programs too, no need to go full PE to use it,
just call it as any other program function.

Oops, I completly missed this command until now. Does it also work with Minerva (and its MultiBASICs) on UQLX (don't know if the MultiBASICs set an Outline on Minerva)?

[tofro]

Anyone loading EasyPointer's toolkit ptrmen_cde has access to the command
WMOV. Type that in any SBASIC window to move the window anywhere on screen.
WMOV can be used in BASIC programs too, no need to go full PE to use it,
just call it as any other program function.

Oops, I completly missed this command until now. Does it also work with Minerva (and its MultiBASICs) on UQLX (don't know if the MultiBASICs set an Outline on Minerva)?

If you have PE and WMAN + ptrmen loaded, yes.

[pjw]

Anyone loading EasyPointer's toolkit ptrmen_cde has access to the command
WMOV. Type that in any SBASIC window to move the window anywhere on screen.
WMOV can be used in BASIC programs too, no need to go full PE to use it,
just call it as any other program function.

Oops, I completly missed this command until now. Does it also work with Minerva (and its MultiBASICs) on UQLX (don't know if the MultiBASICs set an Outline on Minerva)?

WMOV sets it own outline if there isnt one set already. If you have access to uQLx and ptrmen the simplest is to just try it out! Takes less time than tofro needs to type his answer..

[pjw]

Perhaps I should have called this thread Rants and Raves like that section
back in the day in Computer Shopper. Or maybe there should be just such a
section off the main QL Forum index.. Anyway, for now I just want to rant.

I have wanted to let rip for quite a while now but have held back because,
of course one doesnt like to discourage people, or offend - or possibly
worse: risk throwing stones in glass houses.

Some of the ideas presented and discussed above are a sort of mild rant at
practises I see, as I see it, ie

1) Dont mess with my windows. Open your own!

2) Let me ESCape if I want to, without being punished

3) Let me know when your program has finished or give some sign of life if
its long-running.

4) Why, in this day and age, presume everyone uses 512x256a0x0 mode 4/8
without any particular reason?

5) Why indeed, presume the screen is always at 131072?

Fine if your program is just for QLs, as in Black Box. Its never going to
change. Also fine if it cannot possibly run on a QL because the Black Box
doesnt have the software, hardware or speed, but dont make those
limitations willy-nilly or out of ignorance. The pool is too small for
that. We need a steady flow of new software all round otherwise whats the
point?

Moving on:

6) When the user quits your program why ask him: "Do you really want to
quit?" when no data has changed? This is one of the dumbest, most annoying,
things I see in software! Almost as annoying as Windows wishing you
"Welcome" to your own effing machine when you boot up into their software
which you paid through the nose for! But at least you dont have to click
"Thank you" or something equally inane, to proceed.

7) Its nice that you want to make programs for the QL but

a) first learn the basics of programming!

b) learn about the QL specifically. Understand that Qdos/SMSQ is
not just a mickymouse variant of Unix, Amiga, STOS or whatever, but
its rather the other way round. Youll be better for it!

c) dont poke around unless youre supposed to; use system calls

d) the screen may not always be at 131072. So why poke around
there?

e) if the QL is not fast enough,capable enough, sexy enough, etc to
host your game, go elsewhere, friend. There are plenty of other
platforms more suited to that kind of thing.

I need to get some air..

[Derek_Stewart]

Hi,

I agree with all the above points, in fact Qview same issues are stated in the Minerva Manual, in the Hatemail section:

same issues 30 years ago