QL Software Preservation - Next Steps

[greenscreen]

It's concerned me for a long time the lack of old commercial software freely available for the QL which seemed to be controlled by a few people. This is probably the only old retro platform that does not have it's old software readily available publicly for all to enjoy. Without that old software those platforms become forgotten about in this Retro manic world and I see this happening to the QL. A computer without software is useless. It's important for the legacy of this amazing computer for its software to be preserved and readily available for all. This is why libraries were created in the first place to spread knowledge and not forget the past.

This is a very important British computer little known these days outside of a few enthusiasts.

The simplest solution really would be to create a TOSEC database in QLAY MDV format, of the software, and put it on archive.org. The software would be protected & preserved there and the uploader is protected. Really there is no monetary value in this software anymore and no copyright holder would pursue a legal challenge from any of the software from the 1980s.

Alternatively Usenet is also a valuable tool for storing the collection of software, as binaries are usually kept for up to 10 years these days and uploading to that can be made totally anonymous.

As a disclaimer I produced commercially available software for the QL back in the 80s and my work is publicly available, because I did not want it (and the QL) to be forgotten about.

[NormanDunbar]

Really there is no monetary value in this software anymore and no copyright holder would pursue a legal challenge from any of the software from the 1980s.

In a word, good luck on that front. Copyright exists for decades -- 70 years -- so any work from the 80's is still copyrighted -- unless and only unless the copyright holder has given written permission for copying and distribution. Details here: https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2018/0 ... ublication.

If you or anyone else starts uploading, distributing or otherwise copying software, outside the rules, you will possibly get prosecuted, however unlikely that "possibly" is, it's still against the law. Software law is "interesting" to say the least. One of my free products for Oracle Databases (Trace Miner) got me a "cease and desist or else" letter from a German Lawyers, representing a German company, who had a product with a similar name to mine, but which was available before mine was. The fact that a Google search for their product name turned up nothing relevant didn't apply. So I had to rename my application, edit old blog posts and documents, and promise never to do it again. I had 4 threatening letters from those b*gg*rs before I convinced them to "go away" and leave me alone.

So, my advice is simple, don't mess with copyright.

And you'll most likely be hearing from RWAP any minute now as well. (Hi Rich, hope you are well.)


HTH

Cheers,
Norm.

[dilwyn]

Sadly, I have to agree with Norman on this one. Even my site of PD software gets messages demanding I remove some things from time to time. Very occasionally an accidental breach of copyright, more often someone who is embarrassed that their old software is still out there and wishes it removed more because they are ashamed of the quality of their old software than any significant copyright issues.

In principle, I agree that as much QL software as available should be placed somewhere like archive.org to preserve it should repositories like mine ever vanish. If anyone wishes to undertake the onerous task of copying all the PD software to a long term preservation site - be my guest. I can probably send you a copy of my website on a DVD (or rather, several DVDs), along with quite a large collection of even more free QL software from various countries to preserve, which I've never had time to wade through and add to my site.

A better course of action might be to help someone like Rich Mellor find the copyright holders of the QL software. That way, with their permission, the software could be available for eternity. I know he (and Simone Voltolini in Italy) has already preserved in the cloud a huge amount of commercial QL software, ready to release if and when the permission is there to do so. The "preservation" aspect is done, but the onerous work of tracing the copyright holders remains in many cases. Martin Head did a lot of work for me going through a well known former PD library and organising stuff for me to upload to my site. But there's a limit to what anyone can be asked to do

Reading through what I've just written, I realise some of it sounds a bit negative, but I do hope that with the right effort we can release ever more of the old QL software.

[NormanDunbar]

Sadly, I have to agree with Norman on this one.

A lot of people feel sad when they find themselves agreeing with me!

Hope you are well Dilwyn.


Cheers,
Norm.

[Chr$]

I actually quite like the fact that a lot of QL software is not publicly available. It makes collecting the originals a lot more interesting, especially when you successfully recover data from a mouldy old microdrive cart and it works! The whole thing is a challenge due to the lack of availability of most of the originals and the original storage medium reliability. Plus there is the added bonus that it's still actually possible to discover new things or software/games that are MIA.

For pretty much anything Spectrum related or for any other 80s computer you just google it and find it instantly - which is technically illegal, everyone knows that, but usually sort of tolerated as there is little chance of actually earning money from 1980s computer programs these days so the piracy doesn't financially damage the original producer. But where's the fun in having everything available in numerous online places and on umpteen different software DVD's being peddled on eBay.

When I first got heavily into the QL a couple of years ago I also found the software situation a little frustrating, but over the last few years a lot of the most important/highly regarded stuff is now in the public domain, e.g. TK2, Minerva, the original Psion software, the pointer environment, QPAC, plus a lot of other useful things and some decent games.

It's a shame that some copyright holders cannot be correctly attributed, contacted or have declined permission (which is silly) and there are certainly a few things that I'd love to try out that are unobtainium, but that's how it is, the QL retro computer scene is the only one that has strictly stuck to copyright laws.

I think there's enough software available for newcomers to get a decent feel for the QL and to keep them busy for quite a while. The biggest challenge for newbies is getting software onto it and choosing how to upgrade the original QL hardware, because frankly it's not really capable of much without extra RAM and at least one other storage medium.

[dilwyn]

I actually quite like the fact that a lot of QL software is not publicly available. It makes collecting the originals is a lot more interesting, especially when you successfully recover data from a mouldy old microdrive cart and it works! The whole thing is a challenge due to the lack of availability of most of the originals and the original storage medium reliability. Plus there is the added bonus that it's still actually possible to discover new things or software/games that are MIA.

I agree. As a collector it's always great to come across something in this way. You get a great sense of achievement from it.

As another hobby, I collect and restore old Welsh 78rpm and vinyl records and get a similar kick from finding and restoring something rare and ancient (it also appeals to the former sound technician in me, but that's another story). So I understand where you're coming from with this.

Two very time consuming hobbies - just wish I had time for one, let alone two!

[Cristian]

This is probably the only old retro platform that does not have it's old software readily available publicly for all to enjoy.

So weird, isn't it?
I understand all rational and legal/technical stuff, I respect and accept single person's choices and motivations.
However... let's face it: it's a bizarre situation.

[XorA]

As another hobby, I collect and restore old Welsh 78rpm and vinyl records and get a similar kick from finding and restoring something rare and ancient

Lot’s of baaaaaaaaaaaaaa d recordings there

[dilwyn]

As another hobby, I collect and restore old Welsh 78rpm and vinyl records and get a similar kick from finding and restoring something rare and ancient

Lot’s of baaaaaaaaaaaaaa d recordings there

No, they're meeeeeeeeeeeeee ga good ones actually, XorA!

[bwinkel67]

It's concerned me for a long time the lack of old commercial software freely available for the QL which seemed to be controlled by a few people. This is probably the only old retro platform that does not have it's old software readily available publicly for all to enjoy. Without that old software those platforms become forgotten about in this Retro manic world and I see this happening to the QL. A computer without software is useless. It's important for the legacy of this amazing computer for its software to be preserved and readily available for all. This is why libraries were created in the first place to spread knowledge and not forget the past.

This is a very important British computer little known these days outside of a few enthusiasts.

The simplest solution really would be to create a TOSEC database in QLAY MDV format, of the software, and put it on archive.org. The software would be protected & preserved there and the uploader is protected. Really there is no monetary value in this software anymore and no copyright holder would pursue a legal challenge from any of the software from the 1980s.

Alternatively Usenet is also a valuable tool for storing the collection of software, as binaries are usually kept for up to 10 years these days and uploading to that can be made totally anonymous.

As a disclaimer I produced commercially available software for the QL back in the 80s and my work is publicly available, because I did not want it (and the QL) to be forgotten about.

So the issue are those disappeared copyright holders. One way you could go about this is to set up a net to catch them. Create a site like Dilwyn's and add links to professional software with downloadable zip files but have them contain nothing (or a README saying please contact me, we'd like to get the copyright approval). Make sure in the link description you point out that there is no actual software in those zips so anyone that goes there thinking they found it will be warned and reduce frustration.

I mean, how do copyright holders end up finding that their software is being distributed? They find it popping up on Google. So if you have a site with stubs (i.e. you are not sharing the software just a catch all for Google to create a hit) you might get some copyright holders to go on there either out of curiosity or to complain. If it's the latter, you have your answer and remove it (but keep their contact info for future purposes and/or put them in contact with someone like RWAP so they can sell it again -- after all, being available doesn't mean it has to be free) otherwise you'll likely get approval to distribute it.

I personally wrote some professional Mac software in the 90's and one of mine was #3 best seller in the Asian market in the mid 90's. I recently found it on Macintosh Garden and I haven't complained and am planning on creating my own website to distribute it (and all my other stuff) freely. I posted a video in March on my https://www.youtube.com/c/8BitRetroJournal youtube channel on it and it has a connection to the QL so watch if interested -- yes a QL related piece of software was a #3 best seller in large market. I actually have a newer version that hasn't made it out publicly that I will distribute. If I weren't doing retro computing I would just upload it to the Macintosh Garden site and be done with it but since it has become my hobby I'll distribute it myself freely. But without finding it on that site I would have never known that people still use it and I think that is part of the problem, that software authors have moved on and can't imagine that an 80's (or 90's for the Mac in my case) platform would still be used by others. Even with me doing QL stuff, I was surprised there was a 68K Mac community out there.

Anyways, that would be how you could try and find more publishable software. There are some free webhosting sites out there (I use https://www.freewebhostingarea.com which allows you full control of creating your own HTML like Dilwyn does). The investment is in creating the site (look at Dilwyn's who's format would work well and he uses straight HTML and not generated stuff so it would be a good template). Now why not have Dilwyn just add a page to his for professional software and do that...well, he's done enough and I can't imagine him wanting more traffic on his site from potential complaining authors. So once created, it's like fishing, sit back and wait for any nibbles