Target for major new QL hardware

[Dave]

A slightly larger FPGA - to enable a separate bus for video memory so large screen sizes do not slow the entire machine

Already routed and tested as part of the Qzero. Whether slightly larger or several 100% larger just a matter of target price.

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The Qzero has hobbled graphics, though, which reduces the benefit. Give it full Q68 graphics and that becomes much more compelling.

Separate PS/2 keyboard and mouse sockets - current dongle is an ugly hack

Hard to decide. I liked the compact Q68 case more than I disliked the Y cable.

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One of the very few issues with daily use of the Q68 is that it is a tiny puck with a lot of cables on it, that really suggests it needs to be tucked away, invisible, in a hole or behind something. Your compulsion for minimalist design is good'n'all, but the thing would be much more cozy if it were a bit wider so the connectors could have natural spacing, and the thing was wide enough to not tip up just under the leverage of cables. The lack of board edge is an issue. The same board area could be laid out as a less deep, more wide PCB with the PS/2 and power/reset buttons at the back, and the extension bus on the left edge so at least you could expand it with a through connector - expanding upwards requires a very tall case or no through connectors on VERY small PCBs to fit behind the taller rear connectors. I put a floppy interface on mine, and it had to stick out the front over the SD slots. The current design is nice, but it isn't all it could be.

Improved extension bus - current one is very limited

An FPGA with user update for the logic would at least keep this option open. I developed the software for that already.

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That's wonderful to hear.

Replace supercap with cheaper CR2032 - supercap costs more and doesn't work as well

At the moment I'm more for a larger, cheaper supercap.

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I measured the current draw, and a CR2032 will last for 17 or 18 years.

Revise power regulation - because users are stupid

USB connector might be an alternative, but I don't really like becoming incompatible to Q68.
Only two persons ignored the warning about the power supply and one was you

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Aye, and think about that. I'm a very picky guy who runs a very organized workbench. Yet even I was able to inadvertently plug in the wrong one of several barrel connectors. The lack of .5€ of protection on a €200+ computer.

Have 5V on the extension bus - external 5V supplies crow-bar the 3.3V supply and create ground loops

Qzero has that.

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Q68 needs that.

Larger PCB - reduce connector crowding

Unlikely - as long as space is not needed for other components. I don't like large, mostly empty PCBs.

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At 2cm to the depth and 3 cm width, put the PS/2 on the back (where the dongle will be less bothersome) and move the expansion port to the left edge and duplicate it and I give you my solemn word I'll release two expansions for the Q68 II within a month. A floppy interface using the DP8473, and an 8302/8049 adapter enabling QL microdrive and keyboard functionality. I'll even release STLs for a case for it, with expansion slots.

[Peter]

The Qzero has hobbled graphics, though, which reduces the benefit. Give it full Q68 graphics and that becomes much more compelling.

Via HDMI it has full Q68 graphics. I only reduced DAC width for VGA. To save space without need to handsolder 0204 resistors.

One of the very few issues with daily use of the Q68 is that it is a tiny puck with a lot of cables on it, that really suggests it needs to be tucked away, invisible, in a hole or behind something.

Would be interesting to hear more voices about that. Not sure all have the same taste here.

The lack of .5€ of protection on a €200+ computer.

Ah you just mean a suppressor diode, not a wide range voltage input... that' something I could agree with. And £150 = €162 is not €200+

[Dave]

The Qzero has hobbled graphics, though, which reduces the benefit. Give it full Q68 graphics and that becomes much more compelling.

Via HDMI it has full Q68 graphics. I only reduced DAC width for VGA. To save space without need to handsolder 0204 resistors.

Now hold on a minute.

Just a second.

So, you said the Q68 was made small because you dislike wasted board space. And now you're saying the Q Zero doesn't have a feature because it would take too much board space.

The Pi Zero wasn't designed to a footprint, but was designed for cheapest manufacture. 0204US parts are expensive to place, and have a quite high failure rate. While my pick and place can handle 0406US parts at a minimum and place them accuracy, even then the mis-pick or drop rate is unacceptably high, so my minimum is 0603US.

One of the very few issues with daily use of the Q68 is that it is a tiny puck with a lot of cables on it, that really suggests it needs to be tucked away, invisible, in a hole or behind something.

Would be interesting to hear more voices about that. Not sure all have the same taste here.

I think so too. I expect many don't share my view as many wouldn't share yours. I took the computer it's based on as a guide. It has an exquisite industrial design. It's much larger than it needs to be - about 30% larger, because that made the design nicer to use. A big part of our love for the design, for many, is the aesthetics. The handling of it. How the expansions slot in and then match the QL's design.

The lack of .5€ of protection on a €200+ computer.

Ah you just mean a suppressor diode, not a wide range voltage input... that' something I could agree with. And £150 = €162 is not €200+

Add a case and a keyboard splitter and then what is it? (I paid in dollars so I don't actually know £/€ exchange rates. I just know my Q68 was well over $300. Which is not a complaint, mind. Just, when you're paying a premium price for a premium spec machine, you expect these sorts of things to be thought about instead of sacrificed in the name of minimalism.

I didn't consider this stuff until I designed an S100 bus chassis and it was soundly rejected as crap because I hadn't put sufficient thought into the expectations of the users - just myself.

I don't think any of these changes constitute "major new hardware" though.

How about an ATX motherboard QL?

[Peter]

So, you said the Q68 was made small because you dislike wasted board space.

Yes and I don't even consider it very small.

And now you're saying the Q Zero doesn't have a feature because it would take too much board space.

Absolutely. The Qzero is a miniaturized tinkering board, unlike the Q68 which is a desktop machine.
My personal minimum is 0805 and the Qzero was designed with several space constraints and cases in mind.

The Pi Zero wasn't designed to a footprint, but was designed for cheapest manufacture.

That's sort of true for the Qzero also. Actually I didn't care about the Pi Zero other than some compatibility of the GPIO connector. That the Qzero became almost the same size was more or less by chance.

Just, when you're paying a premium price for a premium spec machine, you expect these sorts of things to be thought about instead of sacrificed in the name of minimalism.

In my opinion it is not a premium price. The Q68 hardware is even cheaper than the MIST as a roughly similar platform. And that although the Q68 is made in very small quantities that are far from comparable! While it adds ethernet and a case with better aesthetics (plus it outperforms the MIST for QL use).

[Derek_Stewart]

Hi,

With regards to the quote;

Add a case and a keyboard splitter and then what is it? (I paid in dollars so I don't actually know £/€ exchange rates. I just know my Q68 was well over $300. Which is not a complaint, mind. Just, when you're paying a premium price for a premium spec machine, you expect these sorts of things to be thought about instead of sacrificed in the name of minimalism

The Q68 is sold in UK Pounds Sterling, at a price of a cased Q68 of £180 + £2 for the Belkin PS/2 Splitter.

Making a total of £182, which at today's UK/USA exchange rate is: $233.87 which not over $300 even if delivery is added.

The current Cased Q68 with QL Net connections is £190

Which I do not think is alot for what the Q68 is doing.

I heard lots of talk of Q68 expansions, but nothing has ever come to fruition.

Do they exist or is just or is this just waffle...

[Peter]

I heard lots of talk of Q68 expansions, but nothing has ever come to fruition.

Do they exist or is just or is this just waffle...

I know of some that exist but are private hobby projects.

I have to be self-critical here as I was too lazy to document the Q68 extension bus timings yet. Also I made the mistake that I didn't recommend populating the connector in the beginning, to save a little manufacturing work. I never expected the large success of the Q68 when I designed it, so expandability was just a side aspect. Sorry to say, but the Q68 extension bus is just a "better than nothing" solution.

[Derek_Stewart]

I heard lots of talk of Q68 expansions, but nothing has ever come to fruition.

Do they exist or is just or is this just waffle...

I know of some that exist but are private hobby projects.

I have to be self-critical here as I was too lazy to document the Q68 extension bus timings yet. Also I made the mistake that I didn't recommend populating the connector in the beginning, to save a little manufacturing work. I never expected the large success of the Q68 when I designed it, so expandability was just a side aspect. Sorry to say, but the Q68 extension bus is just a "better than nothing" solution.

Hi Peter,

I do not think that soldering 24 pins is any extra work load and the cost of the connector is miminal.

The major work seems to be around the case modification for the I/O connectors: QL NET

I was going to fit an I2C connector, with a panel mounted 4 pin JST connector, but things are getting quite tight inside the case.

Probably needs a new case, maybe get a Spectrum Next and remove the Spectrum PCB and fit the Q68 in the case.

There is also an idea of a internal expansion port connection board with a PCB guide system to allow a expansion PCB to be fitted. BUt I am struggling to decide om the size or Q68 Form Factor for the Expansion cards. Apart from the QL Net connections.

I do not know of any other Q68 Expansion projects that can be utilised, only much talk, which I am getting a little bored of...

[Peter]

At 2cm to the depth and 3 cm width, put the PS/2 on the back (where the dongle will be less bothersome) and move the expansion port to the left edge and duplicate it and I give you my solemn word I'll release two expansions for the Q68 II within a month. A floppy interface using the DP8473, and an 8302/8049 adapter enabling QL microdrive and keyboard functionality.

An adapter enabling QL microdrive and keyboard functionality would be extremely nice to have for the Q68. I actually see a better market for the existing Q68 than forcing people to buy a mechanically changed one. Availability would boost motivation for mounting the Q68 inside the QL case. What keeps you from releasing it without a Q68 mainboard change?

[Peter]

I do not think that soldering 24 pins is any extra work load and the cost of the connector is miminal.

You are right, it was my mistake not to recommend soldering it from the start.

[Pr0f]

What's actually required for the Q68 to use the QL keyboard?

A microcontroller to make a QL keyboard look like a PS2 keyboard - someone already did the equivalent of QL Keyboard to USB, but as I see it - this is basically an 8042 chip wired up to take QL keyboard tails ? And if that won't work out then a micro to do the same job?

The hardest thing here is trying to find those keyboard tail connectors - those particular sizes seem the hardest to source...