The Sinclair QL Forum

(This arises from an attempt by me to get a discussion on the ql-users mailing list back onto topic...)

It seems to make more sense to discuss this on the forums, so hopefully this will entice more members of the ql-users mailing list to sign up and use the forum!

Anyway, the discussion centres around the best way of sharing data between QLs and their deriviatives.

Originally, we could connect up to 64 QLs together using the QL Network ports. The ZX Spectrum could even be added to the loop using the ZX Interface 1 - although from memory there were some problems with linking QLs and Spectrums together.

Then QXL came out (an ISA card which plugged into a PC) - the QXL also had QL Network ports and so could still share data. Likewise the original THOR computer (not so certain about the THOR XVI).

However, now many people use emulators, I wonder what the best way is of sharing data between QL, Thor, QXL, Q40/Q60 and emulators running under Windows or Linux?

A serial network seems one way, but a standard QL's serial port is limited to 9600 baud and even that is unreliable. A Hermes chip improves the reliabilty, but ideally a SuperHERMES is needed to provide high speed serial connections for the QL (up to 57600bps).

The software side may probably be tackled using SERNET (I think this requires SMSQ/e) or FLEXYNET from the DIY Toolkit. However, can all emulators etc run the software and talk?

Why not use floppy disks I hear you shout?

Well, some QL emulators (QLAY, QL2k and UQLx from memory) cannot natively read QL formatted floppy disks and you have to use additional tools to convert the data between the machines all the time.

There is also the issue that many computers no longer have built in floppy disk drives, and Windows 7 does not have support for DD disks, which causes more headaches (ie. they work, but only sometimes - normally after trying to format them from DOS!).

Other Options?

Some of the emulators can share data stored in a QXL.WIN file (Q-emuLator, QPC and QXL) - however, I don't think they can access it at the same time. Again, for other emulators, you have to use other tools to extract the files you need from a qxl.win file and the native QL has no access.

The HxC Floppy Disk emulator may be one solution - this replaces a standard floppy disk drive and allows you to plug in a compact flash card which contains images of floppy disks (with read and write access). That is fine for the QL, Thor, Atari-QL emulators and even the Amiga emulator.
However, there are some pitfalls with this in that the floppy disk image has to be converted to a special .hfe format on the PC before you write it to the compact flash card. Only Q-emuLator can access the original floppy disk image (before converting it to .hfe, so far as I know).

Any thoughts are appreciated.

For Linux users - Norman Dunbar did do some work on trying to create a native system to allow Linux to read QL disks directly - see

http://qdosmsq.dunbar-it.co.uk/doku.php ... x:fs:start

If this could be added, it would at least enable QPC2 to read disks when run under Linux - (not sure if Norman means QPC2 here or Q-emuLator.... as how does he run a Windows program under Linux?)

RWAP wrote:For Linux users - Norman Dunbar did do some work on trying to create a native system to allow Linux to read QL disks directly - see

http://qdosmsq.dunbar-it.co.uk/doku.php ... x:fs:start

Yes, with"some" being the operative word. While I was developing the software, back when time seemed to be much more easily available, the kernel developers changed things underneath me! This was documents, so no real complaints, but a pain all the same.

It looks like keeping up to date with kernel developments is hard work! Anyway, the gist of the above is simple, it's not finished, not by a long way!

However, with the advent of the "fuser" system, it may be worth while revisiting this project - time permitting of course!

RWAP wrote:If this could be added, it would at least enable QPC2 to read disks when run under Linux - (not sure if Norman means QPC2 here or Q-emuLator.... as how does he run a Windows program under Linux?)

Yes, I use QPC on Linux. I run it under Wine. You need at least Wine 1.0 to get best results, I had problems with mega-repeating characters when typing under versions previous to 1.0, but from 1.0 onwards, no problems.

Except I can't access floppy discs of course. QPC, as far as I'm aware, uses direct sector access to the floppy and under Wine, that simply doesn't happen.

Memory-based media (CF cards, SD cards) will solve this (they have no special physical format and could be read on the PC, setor by sector, even if formatted for the QL and not FAT).
But it needs (on the QL side):
a) connection of CF/SD reader (i.e., to develop new device, or use "IDE to CF/SD" reduction for QubIDE)
b) driver (change the "read/write sector" routines in FLP_ ROM (source code anywhere?), or use QubIDE interface with its ROM).

So, here are two solutions:
1) QubIDE interface with CF (or SD) reduction will solve this simply, but who will produce it?
Omega (http://omega.webnode.com/products/product-1/) tried to, but stopped the project for unknown reason.

2) The second possibility is to develop a SD card reader interface and modify the FLP_ ROM (or QubIDE ROM).
But, who will do it?

On the PC side, you need software, which can access the CF/SD card the same way as the disk image.

I am not too sure about what happened with the replacement for the standard QubIDE - there are still quite a few people looking for a QubIDE, but then with it being increasingly difficult (nigh impossible) to find a Trump Card, let alone a Gold Card / Super Gold Card, I wonder how much market there would be for the QubIDE.

Surely the HxC Floppy Disk drive emulator is a half-way house (if not a full solution).

This will work with any QL disk interface and is a plug in and go solution, already available.

Use software onto the PC, to copy several floppy disk images (or blank floppy disk images) onto an SD memory card, then plug that into the HxC Floppy Disk drive emulator.

The QL can then read/write from the floppy disk images. This would also work if you then plugged the HxC Floppy Disk drive emulator into a floppy disk interface on the PC, THOR, or Atari / Amiga computer running a QL emulator.

The only downside is if you do not have a floppy disk interface to plug the unit into on a PC. In that case, you have the option of reading from the CF card directly - using software to convert the .hfe floppy disk images on the SD card into a standard .img floppy disk image. That .img floppy disk drive can then be read from within Q-emuLator, but not other emulators as far as I am aware.

It would probably be easier to consider this solution and create tools on the PC / Linux etc to extract the information from the .hfe floppy disk image into a format which emulators can read (or add the facility to emulators to mount these disk images directly). At least then, there is no need for new device drivers, or hardware to be designed!

And what of the network (QLAN) interface? Has nobody rigged something, say to the parallel port, of a PC or some other computer? I see rudimentary code for the Spectrum network in the DISCiPLE ROM disassembly, so it seems as though a device could be made. From what I can gather, it's a 100Kbps transfer mechanism, would be present on all real hardware (even my QXL), and theoretically wouldn't require an expensive dongle or complicated software.

I did have published a rough and ready SuperBasic program that transferred data from the Spectrum to the QL using the Serial port on Interface 1 to the serial port on the QL as come what may I could never get the SER ports to work at all.