The Sinclair QL Forum

I might have ICE ROM and I love that, but QL expanded needs a GUI and mouse, at least
C64 GEOS level.

I wonder if GEOS can be ported, if not I opt SymbOS

https://youtu.be/-sXtWEl0XoA?si=FOQiDcq9q_mOTx9l
http://www.symbos.de

I bet someone can do Z80 to m68k conversion

I am no coder, but willing to donate

The QL has a more advanced GUI based on the Pointer Environment. It sort of follows the UNIX model (i.e. not a unified system but one where the GUI can have different variants). Here's a video of the Q68 running it...but it can be run on a QL with extra memory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IrtdUJ5t10

Also, ICE itself was more than just the ROM, as it also came with a window manager you could use in conjunction with it, called CHOICE, which worked well with extra memory (though it could run for small programs in 128K):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEu9xXbRVl8

...and of course, ICE also came in the mouse variant MICE, though the interface was somewhat proprietary and only worked with ICE related apps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGH01HIL5IU

Hi

Since you are using QPC2 on a PC, you could install QPAC2 which has a GUI system, works with a mouse.

See the QL Homepage from the Quick Links at the top on the Forum page.

bwinkel67 wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 9:53 pm The QL has a more advanced GUI based on the Pointer Environment. It sort of follows the UNIX model (i.e. not a unified system but one where the GUI can have different variants). Here's a video of the Q68 running it...but it can be run on a QL with extra memory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IrtdUJ5t10

Also, ICE itself was more than just the ROM, as it also came with a window manager you could use in conjunction with it, called CHOICE, which worked well with extra memory (though it could run for small programs in 128K):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEu9xXbRVl8

...and of course, ICE also came in the mouse variant MICE, though the interface was somewhat proprietary and only worked with ICE related apps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGH01HIL5IU

Is CHOICE a window manager? I was checking the doc time ago an it seen to be more like a task manager, and even if it include routines to manage the mouse (for mice), do not include anything to manage windows, comon dialogs, etc... i think is too hard to do any usefull with it.

I miss a pretty GUI for BBQ, pe is so caotic, and the pretty one only work in GoldCard/Aurora/Q68... more powerfull machines, I miss something that help me fight against the apple classic fanboys and his Photoshop Version 1. ah, ah,

aalea wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 9:09 am Is CHOICE a window manager? I was checking the doc time ago an it seen to be more like a task manager, and even if it include routines to manage the mouse (for mice), do not include anything to manage windows, comon dialogs, etc... i think is too hard to do any usefull with it.

Well, CHOICE does set aside screen memory for each task's display, but it doesn't allow you to move it around so it's more a task manager than a window manager.

bwinkel67 wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 9:53 pm The QL has a more advanced GUI based on the Pointer Environment. It sort of follows the UNIX model (i.e. not a unified system but one where the GUI can have different variants). Here's a video of the Q68 running it...but it can be run on a QL with extra memory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IrtdUJ5t10

\

I am well aware and trying to obtain ICE, which is hard these days

Also argument for SymbOS port is that it would work on unexpanded QL.

I am fan of slow and real QL but I respect that you are making FPGA clone
much cheaper then Q60 route. Maybe if someone decideds to port SymbOS
and surely has no QL hadrware, I we could fundraise to get him QL68

vox wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 7:17 am Also argument for SymbOS port is that it would work on unexpanded QL.

SymbOS is deeply Z80-specific, so that would be a rewrite rather than a port - quite unrealistic.
Also, the existing SymbOS applications would not work, require writing 68K versions.

The only point I can see at all, would be the vague hope of running a GUI with just 128 KB RAM.
Taking into account that 32 KB of 128 KB are screen memory, and 68K code is larger than Z80 code, I doubt the usefulness.
Last but not least, SymbOS has several restrictions compared to Minerva.

Getting a simple RAM extension and running the Poniter Environtment seems much more straightforward.
(Not that I'm a big fan of the PE, hence my own experiments with other GUIs.)

Peter wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:49 pm (Not that I'm a big fan of the PE, hence my own experiments with other GUIs.)

OK what about 68008 emulating Z80 and SymbOS mode (like virtual box)
on 640k or 768k QL?

vox wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 12:42 pm OK what about 68008 emulating Z80 and SymbOS mode (like virtual box)
on 640k or 768k QL?

That would indeed be more realistic in terms of getting SymbOS to work at all.
If someone has specific love for SymbOS (not me), it might be a fun project.
But in terms of speed and features, I don't see why we should go backwards compared to Minerva and PE.

Peter wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 5:12 pm

vox wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2024 12:42 pm OK what about 68008 emulating Z80 and SymbOS mode (like virtual box)
on 640k or 768k QL?

That would indeed be more realistic in terms of getting SymbOS to work at all.
If someone has specific love for SymbOS (not me), it might be a fun project.
But in terms of speed and features, I don't see why we should go backwards compared to Minerva and PE.

Symbos has, in principle, one single developer. (A very industrious one, yes, but still only one person).