The Sinclair QL Forum

RWAP wrote:It could possibly have been even something like a Microsoft bot, as the site includes a download of QL Conqueror (and QL Success) both emulators, which rely on MS-DOS / DR-DOS and/or CP/M - oddly the MS-DOS / DR-DOS companion to Conqueror is not included in the download..... I wonder why....

Type "MS-DOS download" into Google and you get pages of pages of reputable locations where you can download that stuff, so "Because they're afraid of almighty MS" is probably not the right answer. Type "QL Conqueror" and you get nothing. Great!

mk79 wrote:

RWAP wrote:It could possibly have been even something like a Microsoft bot, as the site includes a download of QL Conqueror (and QL Success) both emulators, which rely on MS-DOS / DR-DOS and/or CP/M - oddly the MS-DOS / DR-DOS companion to Conqueror is not included in the download..... I wonder why....

Type "MS-DOS download" into Google and you get pages of pages of reputable locations where you can download that stuff, so "Because they're afraid of almighty MS" is probably not the right answer. Type "QL Conqueror" and you get nothing. Great!

None of which tells you anything about the copyright status of either.
Go to p2p sites and you can download modern movies easier than 30 year old movies, but that does not mean that it is legal to download either.
I do not agree with the current copyright laws (a debate for somewhere else), but until (if) they are changed you should respect the rights of others who wish to stay within the law. And you should respect the rights of software authors and their copyright. Which simply means, unless you have permission from the copyright owner, you do not have any legal right to copy their work (#1). Unless the time limit for copyright has expired. At the current time, as I understand it, no QL software has been around long enough for this to apply...

Mark

#1 Personal back-up's and using copies for normal use to save using the original magnetic media is okay as long as you own a legal distribution of the original media.

1024MAK wrote:

mk79 wrote:

RWAP wrote:It could possibly have been even something like a Microsoft bot, as the site includes a download of QL Conqueror (and QL Success) both emulators, which rely on MS-DOS / DR-DOS and/or CP/M - oddly the MS-DOS / DR-DOS companion to Conqueror is not included in the download..... I wonder why....

Type "MS-DOS download" into Google and you get pages of pages of reputable locations where you can download that stuff, so "Because they're afraid of almighty MS" is probably not the right answer. Type "QL Conqueror" and you get nothing. Great!

None of which tells you anything about the copyright status of either.
Go to p2p sites and you can download modern movies easier than 30 year old movies, but that does not mean that it is legal to download either.
I do not agree with the current copyright laws (a debate for somewhere else), but until (if) they are changed you should respect the rights of others who wish to stay within the law. And you should respect the rights of software authors and their copyright. Which simply means, unless you have permission from the copyright owner, you do not have any legal right to copy their work (#1). Unless the time limit for copyright has expired. At the current time, as I understand it, no QL software has been around long enough for this to apply...

Mark

#1 Personal back-up's and using copies for normal use to save using the original magnetic media is okay as long as you own a legal distribution of the original media.

We have to think that the Piracy always semi destroyed every kind of "market" in the world.

I remember well the '80s and the 90's but initially was a "availability" problem...

Now that...we have ALL...at good prices...nothing is changed and, for me, all is worse now.

With the MP3 the hi-fi quality is degraded...all musicians and sound engineers (Alan Parsons most) knows very well...the PHYSICAL object is totally lost...the collectors of anyone want to see his osbject on the library with the online streaming is not happy...and naturally the quality will never be the same as a Blu Ray double sided.

Nowadays the VINYL is become a MUST for music collectors and for which want the hear the sound naturally...

What I want to tell is that the music, the movies, the games...was not conceived for all...but for which love that!

Is like that...we can clone what we eat and so we don't need to go to the supermarket...is ABSURD.

And naturally the Smartphones market is the same...a smarthone for everyone...like "a Computer in every home" that Sir Clive wants in the 80's...but no one thought that...like we are now...we are creating a very STUPID and IDIOT generation...more IDIOT that before without a PC or a Tablet...

Is incredible that in the last 3 years...you go out on the street and the people don't watch in the eyes....but from a camera !!!

We are totally MAD If we think that technology is for all...I'm not so sure about that...

And we can't be all EQUAL...we are different...and our passion or arts need to be totally different.

Of course, illegal coping will always be blamed for a loss of profits, or failure of a company etc. Regardless of the actual reasons.
It is never that simple though. Humans and the lives they live, makes things rather more complex than a simple answer. In some cases, bootlegged music made an artist or group by making them more popular. Hence they may well have sold more music than they otherwise would of. At the same time, some people would not have bought music/movies/computer software if they could get it for free.

I mean, radio stations and cinemas were supposed to be killed by the television. VCRs again were supposed to again kill cinemas. Then CDs were going to kill radio and cassette tape. Well they did help eventually to kill cassette tape, but only with the help of MP3 recorders/players. Radio and cinemas have not been killed off. Etc, etc...

But to bring this back to the QL, being one of the less mainstream computers and having most software distributed on Microdrives, means that trying to locate and save a lot of the less well known QL software is tricky. It's hard enough as it is, without the QL community having an internal war

So instead of playing the blame game, can everyone please play the cooperation game instead

Mark

1024MAK wrote:Of course, illegal coping will always be blamed for a loss of profits, or failure of a company etc. Regardless of the actual reasons.
It is never that simple though. Humans and the lives they live, makes things rather more complex than a simple answer. In some cases, bootlegged music made an artist or group by making them more popular. Hence they may well have sold more music than they otherwise would of. At the same time, some people would not have bought music/movies/computer software if they could get it for free.

I mean, radio stations and cinemas were supposed to be killed by the television. VCRs again were supposed to again kill cinemas. Then CDs were going to kill radio and cassette tape. Well they did help eventually to kill cassette tape, but only with the help of MP3 recorders/players. Radio and cinemas have not been killed off. Etc, etc...

But to bring this back to the QL, being one of the less mainstream computers and having most software distributed on Microdrives, means that trying to locate and save a lot of the less well known QL software is tricky. It's hard enough as it is, without the QL community having an internal war

So instead of playing the blame game, can everyone please play the cooperation game instead

Mark

Absolutely true

I've left the spanish guys contributions on our preservation work because...I think the cooperation is absolutely necessary to go more strong than now.

Outsoft wrote:

1024MAK wrote:<snip>
But to bring this back to the QL, being one of the less mainstream computers and having most software distributed on Microdrives, means that trying to locate and save a lot of the less well known QL software is tricky. It's hard enough as it is, without the QL community having an internal war

So instead of playing the blame game, can everyone please play the cooperation game instead

Mark

Absolutely true

I've left the spanish guys contributions on our preservation work because...I think the cooperation is absolutely necessary to go more strong than now.

Hear hear. Time to dust ourselves down, move on and look to the future.

dilwyn wrote:

Outsoft wrote:

1024MAK wrote:<snip>
But to bring this back to the QL, being one of the less mainstream computers and having most software distributed on Microdrives, means that trying to locate and save a lot of the less well known QL software is tricky. It's hard enough as it is, without the QL community having an internal war

So instead of playing the blame game, can everyone please play the cooperation game instead

Mark

Absolutely true

I've left the spanish guys contributions on our preservation work because...I think the cooperation is absolutely necessary to go more strong than now.

Hear hear. Time to dust ourselves down, move on and look to the future.

Absolutely Dilwyn

We are going on more than before ^_^

I see everyone has been climbing over each other in the rush to start preserving QL software, now that I am no longer welcome (according to Spanish forums)...

What makes me laugh even more is that the same trolls seem intent that copyright has to be registered in order to prove you have the copyright to software, and because of all the identity theft in the world, it is easy for anyone to pretend to be the original author / publishing house named in the software.

I guess that means that all of the Spectrum software on WOS and elsewhere is free to be used with the Vega etc, without any royalties being paid and those court cases against Elite to claim royalties were wrong and no-one should ever have been paid for their software...

Oh well... Such is the lack of understanding of copyright law evidenced by the members of the Spanish forums

RWAP wrote:Oh well... Such is the lack of understanding of copyright law evidenced by the members of the Spanish forums

Dont forget the differences of copyright law throughout different countries.
E.g. here in the Czech Republic, computer software was not protected by law until 1st Juni 1990, as it was not considered an "artistic work".
That led to situation, that many local operating systems and programs were in fact common programs and operating systems (as Microsoft Basic, CP/M, MS-DOS, RT-11, IBM BAL, ...) with only copyright message rewritten, or with minor changes (e.g. to run on specfic hardware). "Western" software and games were allowed to be copied freely.

According to lawyers opinion, as the Authors Act 89/1990 Sb. has no retrospective effectiveness, all the software available before 1st Juni 1990 still has no protection, as the right to own and copy already gained before (iura quaesita) was not banned.
For this old sofwtare, asking the authors has no sense (for us), as they never hold rights to their own work.
The Authors Act is valid for later software only.
Possibly, simillar applies in Slovakia, Poland, Hungary and probably East Germany.

https://translate.google.cz/translate?s ... t=&act=url

dex wrote:

RWAP wrote:Oh well... Such is the lack of understanding of copyright law evidenced by the members of the Spanish forums

Dont forget the differences of copyright law throughout different countries.
E.g. here in the Czech Republic, computer software was not protected by law until 1st Juni 1990, as it was not considered an "artistic work".
That led to situation, that many local operating systems and programs were in fact common programs and operating systems (as Microsoft Basic, CP/M, MS-DOS, RT-11, IBM BAL, ...) with only copyright message rewritten, or with minor changes (e.g. to run on specfic hardware). "Western" software and games were allowed to be copied freely.

According to lawyers opinion, as the Authors Act 89/1990 Sb. has no retrospective effectiveness, all the software available before 1st Juni 1990 still has no protection, as the right to own and copy already gained before (iura quaesita) was not banned.
For this old sofwtare, asking the authors has no sense (for us), as they never hold rights to their own work.
The Authors Act is valid for later software only.
Possibly, simillar applies in Slovakia, Poland, Hungary and probably East Germany.

https://translate.google.cz/translate?s ... t=&act=url

Also in Italy until 1993...but seems that the "Trolls" are still living in the 80's