Converting Games to HXE (BOOT file editing)

[pjw]

Rich, Im sure those of us whove been on the scene a while appreciate your diligence and honesty. Keep up the good work!

Per

[Paul]

Hi starshipuk,
Could you please tell us what you intend to achieve with your post?
If it's only about complaining and insulting -> piss off to facebook!
Paul

[RWAP]

The fact that you have not heard of some of these games just goes to show what a poor state software preservation and games information is in for this system.

Regarding frogger not working, it would be useful to have a website which lists all games known and unknown, and their limitations, rather then others having to try and figure it out for themselves.

There is the SInclair QL Wiki - which was set up for this purpose. Unfortunately, not enough people contribute information to the site. In reality, the majority of the games you list are probably preserved in some way or other, but may not have been named correctly - part of the issue of preservation is the need to compare source code to ensure if two games called different names are the same or in fact match one of the existing public domain or freeware. I might have been doing stuff with the QL for 32 years, but I cannot remember the names of every single game, typein, and program listed in all of the various public domain libraries and the Quanta library.

So are you saying the hosting company owns the copyright for those games? To compare the Sinclair QL to the spectrum is unfair. The spectrum that sold over 5 million units and is still in production with the spectrum vega. The Sinclair QL was a commercial flop, sold around 150,000 units and is no longer commercially available. The best you can compare it with his Commodore +4, which in my opinion had better games than the Sinclair QL and that system has a website where all known games released the system of freely available to download. You might also want to compare it to something like the Thompson TO8, which also has a website where all games released for the system are available to download. If you are comparing it to the Spectrum ZX, you might want to compare it also to the Commodore 64, which has a project called gamebase where all known games are available to download freely.

No I never suggested the hosting company owns the copyright for the games - it is more a case that the hosting company is also legally responsible (and its directors can be fined or imprisoned) for allowing software to be hosted in breach of copyright. Hence they are concerned whenever someone raises the issue of copyright with them.

The sites for the Commodore +4/ C64 etc are just taking the risk at the moment that they will not be prosecuted - a lot of these sites believe incorrectly that there is such a defence as 'abandonware' - a concept which simply does not exist in law.

If someone wants to set up a QL download site and is willing to take the risk that they would be prosecuted, fined or even imprisoned, or that their site is taken down after several weeks / months by the hosting company, then feel free. What is stopping people?

The whole issue behind this type of site is simply the approach that was adopted by people who have tried setting them up before. Basically the people who set them up were extremely rude and included software which is still easily obtainable on a commercial basis without even asking the copyright holders. To make it worse, they included wording (which I guess they hoped would protect them) saying that if you object to the software being made available then contact us and we will remove it. However, when contacted, they then personally attacked the copyright holders and their businesses and did not remove the software (probably because that represented over 70% of the stuff they had listed)!

I have also not been asking for full game downloads, but I've been asking for help and support with script files and ways to get games which are not running to run. This is something which most other communities would provide for free, as members of the those communities want to support their system and want it to be preserved and promoted.

Unfortunately, these are just not available - because there are many methods of adding copy protection on the QL. Each game has to be inspected closely in order to work out how any copy protection was done, and the copy protection bypassed. In most instances, it was then a case of saving the amended code.

You said you would not make the games available in floppy disk image format due to lack of demand, but until they are made available you will not know what the demand is, and from what I can tell demand for some games in their current format on the sell my retro website has been very low with some games selling as few as one or two or three copies over several years.

But WHICH floppy disk format? .img file, one that is useable with qubIDE, one that can be used with the QL-SD interface, or one that can be used with the HxC? The QL-SD interface has many more users in the QL community that the HxC and people can easily convert between the images using a real floppy disk and an emulator on a PC.

With your selling website selling modern storage mediums (most are SD based) for so many machines (ZX81, Spectrum ZX, Amstrad CPC, Sord M5) which I am sure you realise many people loading games on to these will not have original copies of those games I would have thought you would want to encourage the same forward-thinking movement for the QL rather than discourage it. For example the Sord M5 multicart (which is a fantastic device) I bought from sellmyretro is not SD based. All the games are programmed in the cart. You do not state that those who buy this must own original copies of the games on it, and the chance of everyone owning original carts for all those games is extremely low as some carts are very rare. Whats the difference between the Sord M5 games cart sold on your site (which I doubt has gained legal copyright permission to distribute the games on it) and the QL?

The Sord M5 multicart is not my product - I have no idea about the copyright status of the programs stored on it - that is up to the designer and seller.

As for the various SD interfaces - they are generally supplied without any games - how users download those games and use them is up to them.

Are you not worried that the owners of the Spectrum Vega could take you to court for selling ZX Spectrum SD Card devices which can play illegal games in the same way Nintendo took online shops to court for selling R4 devices? http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.c ... ds_illegal - if it really was about copyright I doubt you would allow the sale of these devices on your website.

I think you do not understand the difference between trademarks, design rights and copyright.

Spectrum Vega have no rights to software or even original ZX Spectrum hardware - the design rights to the ZX Spectrum ended years ago so it is hard to see how even Amstrad could take anyone to court over selling SD card interfaces. The only protected rights relate to the ZX Spectrum ROM, the ZX Spectrum and Sinclair trademarks

You mention no one has contacted Eidersoft and using them in an example to say copyright owners of many games are still contactable - OK, I want to contact them regarding this so I did a google search. It took me to an article you wrote which says they are not contactable! Quote: "Unfortunately, although we have now traced the copyright holders for Eidersoft software, after some initial emails, they stopped responding which is a real shame." Bad example there mate.

Not really - people can happily try approaching them - maybe a phone call, a letter, or more emails. I stopped because people were attacking me for approaching copyright holders and supporting their rights

If you or anyone else wants to try this - the Eidersoft rights are now owned by www.powerc.com where Ken Browning still works

People only had to ask me - but no one has bothered.

[XorA]

The sites for the Commodore +4/ C64 etc are just taking the risk at the moment that they will not be prosecuted - a lot of these sites believe incorrectly that there is such a defence as 'abandonware' - a concept which simply does not exist in law.

It is a pity that the Orphaned Works legislation did not cover Software, it would make the preservation project so much easier. But its really just designed for big media to nick the little guys copyright works

[StarshipUK]

But WHICH floppy disk format? .img file, one that is useable with qubIDE, one that can be used with the QL-SD interface, or one that can be used with the HxC? The QL-SD interface has many more users in the QL community that the HxC and people can easily convert between the images using a real floppy disk and an emulator on a PC.

Not really - people can happily try approaching them - maybe a phone call, a letter, or more emails. I stopped because people were attacking me for approaching copyright holders and supporting their rights. If you or anyone else wants to try this - the Eidersoft rights are now owned by http://www.powerc.com where Ken Browning still works
People only had to ask me - but no one has bothered.

I have cut most of the replied comments as I think its just gonna go around in circles and its best we agree to disagree, now knowing where we both stand on this issue. I have got a lot working and sounds like non working ones are probably more due to them being simple basic programs or that they only work with standard RAM.

Are your disks 1.44MB or 720k? I am after standard QL 720k floppy .IMG format. Its easy to turn these into HXE format by running the HXE tool which has a batch convert feature, so standard working QL 720k floppy format (.IMG or .BIN) should be fine. Selling the image rather than a physical disk will also remove production costs and postage costs, so may make the products cheaper as a result. As for the QL-SD interface it seems these are discontinued now, as I can't find them for sale anywhere to look into this as an alternative option. I guess they read images as if they are the microdrives (rather than floppy disks), therefore not needing modification to the software? If so this may have been a better option for me if they were still available.

I tried contacting Eidersoft using the information you provided. No reply at all (not surprisingly), so I have tried but they obviously do not seem at all interested in enforcing their copyright by the fact they are no longer selling the software and do not reply to E-Mails relating to it.

Also QL games pack 2 is missing from sellmyretro. Not sure what games were on that.

[RWAP]

Are your disks 1.44MB or 720k? I am after standard QL 720k floppy .IMG format. Its easy to turn these into HXE format by running the HXE tool which has a batch convert feature, so standard working QL 720k floppy format (.IMG or .BIN) should be fine. Selling the image rather than a physical disk will also remove production costs and postage costs, so may make the products cheaper as a result.

The disks I sell are 720K - as they work with all QL systems. The costs of the box-sets are mainly the royalties I pay out on sales, plus printing costs. There are a couple of issues with supplying electronic only versions (ie disk images) - the main one is how to provide the manual, and reference cards etc which help you play some of the more complex games.

Automated downloads are also no longer a viable option (due to EU VAT rules), so every order would still have to be sorted out manually - so it does not save much timewise.

To be honest, I just do not think there is enough of a market for supplying the box-sets electronically for the sake of saving a few £££s - as I say, you are the ONLY person to have asked

As for the QL-SD interface it seems these are discontinued now, as I can't find them for sale anywhere to look into this as an alternative option. I guess they read images as if they are the microdrives (rather than floppy disks), therefore not needing modification to the software? If so this may have been a better option for me if they were still available.

No - these have not been discontinued - but Paul that makes them has very limited time for construction and so makes a few every now and then. It is a shame, as the QL-SD is a neat option.

However, the QL-SD does not use microdrive or disk images - it is similar to the QubIDE in that it is still addressed by means of a new device name (SD1_ I believe) and so has the same issues which you have come across.

Someone was developing a microdrive emulator which plugged into the microdrive expansion port - I do not know whether any more progress has been made on this project which is a shame.

I tried contacting Eidersoft using the information you provided. No reply at all (not surprisingly), so I have tried but they obviously do not seem at all interested in enforcing their copyright by the fact they are no longer selling the software and do not reply to E-Mails relating to it.

I think it probably needs a phone call now and an attempt to speak to Ken Browning. Whether they respond or not does not give anyone the right to put their software on the web or share it without permission though.

Also QL games pack 2 is missing from sellmyretro. Not sure what games were on that.

Oops - I have added it again now.

It has :

QL Flight Simulator written by C H Roberson Consultants and published by Microdeal / Talent+
Blast Buggy written by Paul Tuck and published by Shadow Games / Talent+
Night Nurse written by S Renton and published by Shadow Games / Talent+
The Lonely Joker written by Jochen Merz and published by RWAP Software
QL Hopper written by Steve Bak and S J Proctor and published by Microdeal / Talent+
Gwendoline written by Benoit and Denis Hambúchen and published by Labochrome

[StarshipUK]

The disks I sell are 720K - as they work with all QL systems. The costs of the box-sets are mainly the royalties I pay out on sales, plus printing costs. There are a couple of issues with supplying electronic only versions (ie disk images) - the main one is how to provide the manual, and reference cards etc which help you play some of the more complex games.

Automated downloads are also no longer a viable option (due to EU VAT rules), so every order would still have to be sorted out manually - so it does not save much timewise.

To be honest, I just do not think there is enough of a market for supplying the box-sets electronically for the sake of saving a few £££s - as I say, you are the ONLY person to have asked

I am guessing you do not own a Scanner then? Scanning in the manual and providing it either as PNG images or PDF files is an option. To be honest a better one as I would most likely loose a paper copy, or it could get lost, damaged, destroyed or stolen. In my case I am not interested in the more complex games. I am only interested in games people can sit down and quickly play at events and not the more difficult or complex ones. Thats why its slightly annoying these game packs are all over the place with games as most packs only have a few games that would really be of interest to me for running at events and most have at least 2 or 3 games which are no interest to me whatsoever, such as card games, board games, simulators.

I doubt there will be much demand to warrant automated downloads and I am sure doing the process manually attaching a zip file and sending an E-Mail does not use much time - I expect less than writing a envelope and walking to a post box to post it. Still, with Brexit that VAT rule may change at somepoint if you really want to go down the automation route with this.

Its not just for the sake of a few quid, but now people know there is a way to play these using a trump card and gotek drive with HxC firmware its a viable option to many. Just because I am the only person that has asked does not mean I am the only person interested. Did people specifically ask you for the QL game packs on floppy or many of the other products you sell? Probably not but once they are available people will see them and be able to buy them. If I have to covert floppies then its also a big waste of my time, having to run them through a emulator and convert them back to an electronic image format, where I expect you already have these disks in an electronic format to create the disks.

Of interest to me:

Pack 1 - 3 Games
Pack 2 - 4 Games
Pack 3 - 5 Games (But does Baron Rogue still need a dongle?)
Pack 4 - 6 Games
Pack 5 - 4 Games
Pack 6 - 3 Games

So 11 games total that are no interest to me. The pack I would most likely want to buy first is pack 4 as it has 6 games that interest me (and also looks to be the most popular pack probably as a result of game choice) if that was to be made available electronically.

Do the games come with any notes as to what was altered or modified in each one? I am not a purist, but it would be useful to compare against the original versions.

[RWAP]

Its not just for the sake of a few quid, but now people know there is a way to play these using a trump card and gotek drive with HxC firmware its a viable option to many.

Are you using a Gotek drive or the HxC floppy emulator which is more expensive than the cheaper Gotek clones? I didn't think the Gotek drive worked with DD disk images - certainly I have a flopper interface here which doesn't work with a Trump Card. If the Gotek works, then yes, the market for disk images might be a bit bigger, but I would estimate the number of QL users using a HxC floppy emulator with the QL could be counted on one hand - certainly those that buy the Trump Card clones seem to be ordering disk units as well.

If I have to covert floppies then its also a big waste of my time, having to run them through a emulator and convert them back to an electronic image format, where I expect you already have these disks in an electronic format to create the disks.

So, in other words you can't be bothered to waste your time, but think I should be willing to? The files are stored on a PC but not as a disk image - they are stored in a format for use with q-emulator, as I don't have any hardware which can create real disks from disk images (since it is now hard to find a PC motherboard with built in floppy disk drive controllers, and the disk imaging software does not work with USB floppys!)

Pack 1 - 3 Games
Pack 2 - 4 Games
Pack 3 - 5 Games (But does Baron Rogue still need a dongle?)
Pack 4 - 6 Games
Pack 5 - 4 Games
Pack 6 - 3 Games

I didn't know Baron Rouge ever needed a dongle...

Do the games come with any notes as to what was altered or modified in each one? I am not a purist, but it would be useful to compare against the original versions.

No is the short answer - there was no need to keep notes like this.

I will see if I can find some time to convert Games pack 4 for now - but I am busy with other projects

The electronic versions will still cost £15 each AND ARE NOT FOR PASSING ABOUT IN BREACH OF COPYRIGHT!

[XorA]

Are you using a Gotek drive or the HxC floppy emulator which is more expensive than the cheaper Gotek clones? I didn't think the Gotek drive worked with DD disk images - certainly I have a flopper interface here which doesn't work with a Trump Card. If the Gotek works, then yes, the market for disk images might be a bit bigger, but I would estimate the number of QL users using a HxC floppy emulator with the QL could be counted on one hand - certainly those that buy the Trump Card clones seem to be ordering disk units as well.

There are two models of gotek, a HD and a DD one. But I don't know how that affects the HxC firmware for them.

Graeme

[swensont]

StarshipUK,

For someone coming to our forum and asking for help, you sure are whining a lot. Others did provide some pointers to how these games might be made to work on a disk drive system, but apparently that was not good enough:

" If you are trying to promote the system (rather than just make a profit out of it) then I do not see any issue with making the working scripts or knowledge available to all."

It can be rather hard to make available what is not available. You are assuming that those of us on the Board already know how to make these games work on disk drive and that we are holding back for some nefarious reason.

Then you start a tirade about how the QL is not comparable with the Spectrum, etc, etc, might be compared to the +4, etc, etc. Nothing like pissing off those you are asking help from.

Thanks for dropping by, but no need to come back until you can have a more congenial attitude.

Tim Swenson
QL user for 30 years