minix or Linux in ql

[bwinkel67]

It would be cool to see Minix running on QL hardware, just to see if, back in the day, it could have been done. We could have had a dual-booted QL :-/

So Minix could sort of run on a QL emulator running on an Atari ST? I'm guessing if that scenario existed, Minix directly on an Atari ST was more plausible. What was the point to get it run on a QL emulator on an Atari? To see if it could work on a QL but they didn't own one?

[Peter]

Minix was the only version of Unix that was cheap ($69).

Interesting, I was not aware that Tanenbaum charged something, despite the academic nature of Minix.

I remember his usenet debate with Torvalds where he claimed his microkernel architecture was superior and more future-proof due to better portability. Ironically, Minix ended up ARM/Intel only and is dead by now. While Linux, despite the monolithic kernel, runs on quite a lot of CPU architectures.

Both are somewhat QL related - Minix apparently running on the original QL and lost by now, while Linux made it more than a decade longer and could run useful applications on a Q40/Q60. Even today, someone is still maintaining the latest Linux kernel for the Q40/Q60.

[NormanDunbar]

I am wondering how well, or otherwise, Minix would have run on the original QL. Given that way back then, when I had floppies and a Trump card, the Digital Precision DOS emulator was abysmally slow, almost glacial in operation! PC Conqueror, I think it was called.

Cheers,
Norm.

[Derek_Stewart]

Minix was the only version of Unix that was cheap ($69).

Interesting, I was not aware that Tanenbaum charged something, despite the academic nature of Minix.

I remember his usenet debate with Torvalds where he claimed his microkernel architecture was superior and more future-proof due to better portability. Ironically, Minix ended up ARM/Intel only and is dead by now. While Linux, despite the monolithic kernel, runs on quite a lot of CPU architectures.

Both are somewhat QL related - Minix apparently running on the original QL and lost by now, while Linux made it more than a decade longer and could run useful applications on a Q40/Q60. Even today, someone is still maintaining the latest Linux kernel for the Q40/Q60.

I used use Shoestring Linux and previous version of Linux on the Q60, which work well, I even compiled UQLX on the Q60 which could read QLWA and all Linux file formats. Seen at the Q60 Production pre-launch in 2002 at a Quanta Show in Brighton.

I would be interested of further Q60 Linux developments.

[Derek_Stewart]

Hi,

The Source code to Minix is included in the Minix books by Andrew Tanenbaum, can not this be typed into C68 and compiled?

The QL MINIX DIFF files from the Forth Dimension BBS, a BBS running on a PC with Maximus BBS software, in 1992ish, the Sysop of the BBS, does not think he has them anymore, as the QL related equipment in storage for over 30 years.

If I had downloaed the DIFF files, I would of saved them on the floppy disk, I will have a look at my old disks, but after 30+ years, I am not sure they will be readable. But I should of backed this up to QXL,WIN files on a QXL.

[dilwyn]

Hi,

The Source code to Minix is included in the Minix books by Andrew Tanenbaum, can not this be typed into C68 and compiled?

The QL MINIX DIFF files from the Forth Dimension BBS, a BBS running on a PC with Maximus BBS software, in 1992ish, the Sysop of the BBS, does not think he has them anymore, as the QL related equipment in storage for over 30 years.

If I had downloaed the DIFF files, I would of saved them on the floppy disk, I will have a look at my old disks, but after 30+ years, I am not sure they will be readable. But I should of backed this up to QXL,WIN files on a QXL.

Here is Felix Croes's post on 1 Feb 1990 where he confirms he stops work on QL Minix and says it's four times as slow as the Atari ST one and the kernel had to be compiled on an ST with Minix.
I looked up old Usenet posts on Google Groups. A search in All Groups for Minix+Sinclair+QL brings up 239 results, if anyone wishes and has the patience to wade through them. Tim's article earlier in this thread names the people who took up the baton later. The original post by Felix A. Croes regarding the end of his involvement with the project is shown below.

I did a search for Felix A. Croes on the web, turned up a few possibilities, one of whom posts in Dutch on social media so there is a chance it might be the right person. If anyone has the wish and the time to do so, it might be interesting to try to contact him just to get some comments and memories from him back to those times!

It's entirely possible that some of the people involved with the uQLx emulator (Linux based) might have had contact with Minix at some point and maybe drawn inspiration from it I suppose. May be worth contacting people like the author of uQLx to see where that leads.

I seriously doubt QL Minix from back then would have any worth nowadays except perhaps to preserve for posterity. Maybe if the DIFF files were found at some point it might be possible to recreate it for fun and posterity, although that might be a bit masochistic in some respects! You can only take this kind of project so far.

Felix A. Croes
1 Feb 1990, 10:55:33
to
Hello QL users everywhere,
Thank you again for all your replies. Clearly the QL is not dead yet! I even got
reactions of the sort "I have allways been considering to buy a QL, with Minix
working on it I certainly will".

Let me emphasize that the current version is *not* going to be distributed in
any way. It is about four times as slow as on the ST, supports only 720K disks,
and all the bugs are not out yet. Many things can be and should be improved.

Due to circumstance and lack of time I am not able to do further work on Minix
QL myself. I am therefore looking for a person or persons who are willing to do
this. Candidates must have:
- a Sinclair QL with
- at least 640K of memory
- at least one 720K 3 1/2" disk drive, Cumana or Cumana compatible (flp1_*d2d
must work for reading/writing the whole disk)
AND
- a Atari ST with Minix
AND
- some way to transfer files from the ST to the QL (for example, XOVER).

You will need the ST to compile the kernel, and a 3 1/2" drive for fast file
transfer. It is possible to work with a QL only, but this will slow down things
considerably.

Anybody interested?

--

Felix Croes (cr...@fwi.uva.nl)

[Peter]

I am wondering how well, or otherwise, Minix would have run on the original QL. Given that way back then, when I had floppies and a Trump card, the Digital Precision DOS emulator was abysmally slow, almost glacial in operation! PC Conqueror, I think it was called.

Minix on QL did not have to emulate a CPU, it was an actual 68K port. So it wouldn't have been that terrible in terms of speed.
Still I would not invest time in Minix.

By the way, PC Conqueror behaves like the PC speed of its time on a Q68.

[NormanDunbar]

Minix on QL did not have to emulate a CPU, it was an actual 68K port. So it wouldn't have been that terrible in terms of speed.
Still I would not invest time in Minix.

By the way, PC Conqueror behaves like the PC speed of its time on a Q68.

Hi Peter,

I'm certainly not intending to waste any time on Minix, I don't have must time left to spare for anything at the moment. Moving house is a nightmare! I was just wondering how well it would have run back in the day. Thanks for the update.

Cheers,
Norm.

[Peter]

Hey Norm,
sorry to hear and I wish all will turn to good very soon!
Best wishes!

[bwinkel67]

A little googling brought me right to the QL Homepage on this forum:

https://dilwyn.theqlforum.com/ezines/qhj/qhj/qhj01.txt

Looks like Tim was so close in getting his hands on version 1.5.5. But it sounds like maybe Erwin Dondorp is our target. I did find a person on Facebook who's assocated with the university in that email in the 90s. Will update if they reply.

Minix on the QL
By Tim Swenson

For those that don't know what Minix is; Minix is a small Unix like
operating system written by Andrew Tannenbaum to be used as an
instructional aide in Operating System classes.

Felix Croes started working on porting Minix to the QL from the
Atari ST version. Erwin Dondorp (dondorp@fwi.uva.nl) has taken over the
task. He reports that he has Minix version 1.5.5 running successfully.

After much pestering, Erwin has decided to allow me to be a beta
tester for the project. He has promised to send a disk with QL Minix,
but so far my mailbox has yet to recieve such a package. I'll keep
pestering him and keep you informed.

One interesting item about Minix/QL is that, unlike other versions,
it does not take over the QL. Minix/QL is just another job running
under QDOS. Basically it is a Multitasking OS running under another
Multitasking OS.

Edit: Btw, he's not that active on Facebook, with a last post in 2021, so it may take a while, if at all, to reach him. I also found him on LinkedIn: google his name and add "LinkedIn" and the first hit will be him (company is Vleuten, Utrecht). I don't use LInkedIn often (to never) since I'm a teacher. I can't seem to message him there so someone with a better LinkedIn presence may be able to glean more current contact info for him.

Here is the note I sent him on Facebook:

Hi,

Random email but I'm trying to locate the holder of this old email:

Erwin Dondorp (dondorp@fwi.uva.nl)

As they worked on a project in the early 90s that has fallen off and there are a few of us in a forum trying to preserve the project for historical reasons. Are you that person?